RAMzine has been following metal band Avatar for the last 10+ years and it has been quite the journey to witness. From 2012’s Black Waltz where the clown was born and finally the music had a face, followed by the legendary Hail the Apocalypse which has some staple classics, the albums since then saw the band further develop their sound, delving deeper into their metal circus world and producing some huge sounding heavy metal. Now the band has released their ninth studio album Dance Devil Dance, and it’s on this tour that we catch up with frontman Johannes Eckerström to discuss how the music comes together, and how the band are doing at this new stage in their career.
RAMzine: How’s it going, Johannes?
Johannes: I’m doing excellent. We are in Manchester. We’re premiering the Dance Devil Dance Tour tonight. And people are interested and blows my mind more than ever. So it’s good.
RAMzine: There’s not really a great deal like you in the metal scene with the whole circus routine, which now that I’m thinking back, probably should have been more popular than it is. But for whatever reason, you guys were the first to do it.
Johannes: Yeah, well you know, a lot of metal is a circus, to begin with. To be perfectly fair KIϟϟ put out an album named Psycho Circus, remember that one? Big comeback album. I was 12 and you could buy 3D glasses. So when the music video came on the TV, you could see it in 3D and it didn’t work. And I mean, Alice Cooper was so vaudevillian in what he was doing.
So there’s kind of this overlap because the circus is one place where a clown, a jester or whatever fits, but we kind of move in a bunch of different environments where this fits. The big encompassing term used nowadays to define what we are is obviously not ‘circus metal’, because that would be silly, but a ‘metal circus’. So yeah, sure.
RAMzine: The gimmick is pretty important.
Johannes: Yeah, exactly. I don’t know, I think it’s bad English as we’re sensitive to the word gimmick – but we kind of use it to make a difference in when we do things right and when we do them wrong.
We use the word gimmick, like… if you put a hat on something, or you slap something onto something else with a piece of glue, but we try to think that everything fits together as part of the bigger [picture of the band] and that’s why it works for us.
And sometimes when other bands have been trying similar things, it doesn’t always work because then it becomes a gimmick for them. While in our case, it always starts with the music and the whole circus thing happened because we answered the question, finally, after many attempts, what does our music look like?
RAMzine: How does this work with your writing process?
Johannes: We start with music and once the music starts falling into place there’s that condition called synesthesia – there are people who hear or see colours when they hear sounds and stuff, and relate in that way.
I don’t have that but I do always feel like if music is doing its job right I get visions, like I picture something. It’s why I got into power metal so strongly when I was 12 because you saw the dragons and swords and magic and whatever. And this stuff that makes me visualise something, the stronger the vision is what I get more into. And that is a sorting process in our music. So once the music starts getting better and better you start to see the songs more and more clearly and then that feeds into whatever visual part will come along with the music.
RAMzine: Is that also how the make-up and the outfits are thought about?
Johannes: Yeah exactly, with the new album it really was about balancing both. Dance Devil Dance has a lot of heavy stuff, a lot of death metal-oriented stuff together with all the flamboyant stuff and it all boils down to that we really focus on the fact that heavy metal is a subgenre of rock, and roll is dance music. And in that whole thinking the outfit needs to reflect the circus, the festive, the fun, and at the same time there are parts of it that are kind of militaristic, so it is that very masculine coded aggressive part of it that goes into the outfits and then the flamboyant things and stuff that was originally borrowed from drag artists. So mean you got a very fabulous thing together with the aggressive and that is very much how the album comes together as well musically.
“A very fabulous thing together with the aggressive”
RAMzine: Do you connect with drag artists?
Johannes: Connect personally? I don’t have the pleasure of knowing many. We met one yesterday that actually is heavily inspired by us in their performance. But I connect and determine like that. I think it’s awesome. Yes.
RAMzine: Manchester is going to be the very first date on the Dance Devil Dance Tour. You’re going to be playing songs no one else has heard around the world before. How do you feel about that?
Johannes: Better than ever about being in this situation, the preparations were thorough. We are all doing our homework and we rehearse and try to not sound bad before coming here. But now also we really worked more than ever in production rehearsal preparations for everything, all the bells and whistles and who was going to stand where when and really work that through. So we got to realise a lot of the vision during practice, we got to take that way further than we ever have in the past meaning that now we can really come out here and enjoy the ride right away. Then of course after tonight is going to be a relief if everything fell into place like… yeah, okay, so it worked.
RAMzine: The key with anything is to do it once, half-ass it and then get better.
Johannes: We got to be more half-assed at home than we usually are before the tour so we got that out of the system. And as far as the music goes because of the rigid rehearsing the new songs really feel that we are playing them on the level like we are playing ‘The Eagle Has Landed’ and all those that we play all the time. Musically it feels better than ever.
RAMzine: RAMzine has interviewed you a few times over the years, and you’ve been featured on our cover previously. Our cameraman, Chris James Ryan, (clips of this interview will be found on our socials) last spoke to you 9 years ago at Hammerfest!
Johannes: AHA, Hammerfest, fantastic! That’s where I learned that restroom is an American term. Because I said “excuse me can you help me find a restroom?” and the response was “Yeah, no problem” and they found me a couch, so I shat in it… and it [the festival] was at this weird vacation resort, right? We had one of those kinds of trailer park houses, mobile home-looking things that was our dressing room. We played so late so we got real comfortable in there and Aliens was on TV and then “Showtime” and we said “No! She’s about to say Get away from her, you b*tch! wait!” Was a good time though.
RAMzine: Yeah we stayed up to watch you guys at one o’clock in the morning as we wanted to see a new band… and now you guys are now a global sensation.
Johannes: Global sensation meaning the part of the globe that thinks it’s the whole globe we’re doing good in the north-western hemisphere of planet Earth. Starting to break into the global south and gladly so but still got a lot of work to do. You imperialist, you. I’m roasting you guys I don’t know why.
RAMzine: We’re on edge now… the last time we saw you in Manchester you played the Academy 3, a smaller venue (470 capacity). So now to play Academy 1 (2,300 capacity), how does that feel?
Johannes: We’ve been in all kinds of places, but the first play we played in Manchester remains our first love, Satan’s Hollow. Because it’s, you know, so ridiculous. We were over there in 2006, our first European tour took us there, no one was there. But I mean the place looked amazing. It was also at a time when I was young and hungover enough to use a rock as a pillow. You know, good times.
But how it feels? The short answer is good, of course. The sad part of it is that it feels strangely normal if you don’t stop to think about it too much. Because we’ve been there. We’ve been there every day since then doing this and these little steps. But I think I’m taking more right now than I have in a long time [about] being blown away that people are interested, like the word interested specifically.
I have that feeling of just gratitude. I keep trying to say as often as I can “thank you so much for bringing meaning to what we do by having it mean something to you”, because that “without you, we will be nothing” talk – There’s definitely huge truth in that. Because I sit by the piano sometimes and do music only for me and that’s a beautiful valid way of making music. But the way we do and the thing we do is dependent on that interaction… of that community of that participation. And that is what makes it work, not just that we get to have it as a job, but then also, in that moment, what it’s all about is doing this for and with people.
But now the word interest is more of the crazy thing when we have been playing these albums and done some Q and A’s gearing up for the release. It’s just that people say “oh something is coming, let’s go and check that out by Avatar” and we’ve been sitting just smelling our farts long enough that something came out of the other side.
In a way, it’s so self-involved in our own little world and this self-gratification that goes into what we make and then you put it out, you’re supposed to share it and stuff. But if you really think about it, it’s crazy and crazy cool.
RAMzine: It’s always that disconnect between what you want to do as an artist and what the audience wants to hear from you.
Johannes: Well, because we are willing to sacrifice everything we built along the way doing exactly what we want, and if we are being booed off stage, we are at peace that we did what we want and are ready to go home. I don’t worry so much about that aspect of it. I mean, it’s more fun when people like it, it gives you great opportunities to do more of the fun stuff or the good stuff.
But the job description that we have for what we’re doing is we want to write and perform our own material meaning that we insist on writing our own songs before we’re good at writing songs. That’s the part that one of the drugs that we want to shoot up the arms is that creative process and having ideas. Write and perform our own material and then take the band as far as we possibly can because we love the job under the condition that we still remain friends, that we remain close and if we don’t get to do this on those premises, which is very you know, it’s quite demanding. Things no one can take for granted to get where we are getting to do these things, we’re lucky bastards.
But I’m also fine with going home and I think that the audience who are gonna use the fact that we like change, like reinvention, like new challenges and are a bit uncompromising with who we are. We will be serious when we want to be serious, we will get around when we want to get around and all that, no matter what is expected from us – and I think the people that get us, get that.
That’s true with any music. I don’t super follow reviews, but when I see them and the people who give you high scores, it’s not just that “Oh, good he likes us”. That’s nice, but if I read what actually is being written, this sounds stupid in a way, but I tend to agree with what they write. And not just in “this is good”. I think it’s good too but the specifics, what influences they hear, what vibe, what mood each song puts them in and stuff like that.
I think a lot of time liking music or liking art is about getting it, if that makes sense, like if a review says something about Gojira or Devin Townsend and stuff when talking about it’s like yes, absolutely. Yes, I agree. We love that you know, and if they don’t like it, they will say you know, I will not mention bands in that example because I don’t want to be rude or a jerk.
So it’s really that sense of recognition in if people are equally enthusiastic to us seems to be connected with if they get it and people who get it, get it and those who don’t get it, they don’t get it and that’s fine. I know people who don’t like The Beatles too and they are the biggest band in the world.
RAMzine: Regarding today’s music culture itself, ironically Liverpool is hosting Eurovision but at the same time loads of grassroots venues are shutting down. Do you see stuff like that?
Johannes: Oh, yeah, I see it all the time. Especially Stockholm has a huge problem. People who move into the centre want to feel the pulse but on their terms, so they file noise complaints; noise complaints are legally a very, very powerful thing. And to isolate these venues and soundproof them and do that is a cost that usually whoever the tenants are can’t afford and don’t even know if it will be enough once they start doing it.
I live in Helsinki in Finland and there’s a similar problem, but for businesses doing complaints instead, maybe it’s a company owned by a company in a country that is an odd time zone. They have people in the office at odd hours sort-of-conflicts, so things are moving out of the centre. So they tried to find venues more scattered around, which is fine if you’re a local. But no band can tour every small town in every country, while you go to the hubs.
And when you are in a hub, it’s good if you’re kind of central in the hub with people who live two hours away, where it’s easy enough to find your way and you also keep the inner city culture alive in it. So you see that and on our level that we are now in England, it’s still in the best interest in these kinds of venues, they will be built, you know, big cities want to be able to attract events and stuff. It’s more dangerous to smaller clubs, the basements, the youth centres for kids to start out and be exposed to an audience and exposing our audience to themselves and do all of that.
I think the more important matter to speak about is where are the kids gonna go and where you’re gonna stand. And [as a new band] kind of suck in front of your friends [and see if they] are going to be into it anyway, and you’ll build your own little thing and get to grow and evolve to a way that then you challenge the old farts. And that is a bigger issue.
RAMzine: Subculture dies with these smaller venues.
Johannes: Exactly, if you lose the rooms, the places for that to happen, it will happen less. You can really tell places where they have a strong, well-known music history. You mentioned Liverpool like The Cavern Club was probably damn important to The Beatles and their contemporaries. You know, all those kids when they start to learn their four, three chords there and started out there were places for them to play for each other. And then it grows and grows.
RAMzine: Support music, support local music, support Avatar. While we’re finishing up, we were looking for stuff for you to sign…
Johannes: Yeah?
RAMzine: I’m pretty sure this has already been done…
Johannes: YES! AHAHAHAH! I’m gonna fix it. We finally discuss this. I mean, I’m honoured that James Cameron would do a documentary about us but factually, it’s obviously a complete mess. Like I’m not blue. I am tall, so they got that right. And I’m great with animals and my braids do have healing qualities other than that, not very good, so we actually worked on our own documentary to finally get accurate sadly it’s in 2D but you just gotta live with that. This is a first.
